Teachers Unions

[DILLIGAF]

Well it looks like we have all of the teachers and associated helpers poised ready for all out job action/strike.
What is your opinion of this.
Do you believe the Unions reports on the issues or do you believe the government reports?
Do you think teachers should have the right to strike or should that right be taken away from them?
My personal feeling is that they should not have the right to strike as I believe that the job should be classified as an essential service.
I also do not believe the Union reports on the issue nor do I believe the government reports although I believe the government reports are closer to the truth.
I believe the current government is trying to undue a mess that was created by the previous Liberal government and is just not saying exactly what is going on and putting the cards on the table and letting the public see and hear exactly what is going on.
I believe the Unions is outright using the students as hostage in the negotiations and saying everything that it is for the betterment and protection of the students.
The issue is MONEY plain and simple.
I personally think they should privatize the education system completely. These overpaid under worked blow bags are at the end of the rope. I hope they freeze their collective asses off on the picket line.
Robbie - over to you!!!

 

[papasmerf]

As a member of the IBEW we have a NO STRIKE / NO LOCKOUT clause in out contracts.
We as members can not strike as long as we have a contract or extension there of.
Something they can adopt.

 

[Skipper]

As a member of the IBEW we have a NO STRIKE / NO LOCKOUT clause in out contracts.
We as members can not strike as long as we have a contract or extension there of.
Something they can adopt.

That would make sense but our government doesn't have any.

 

[papasmerf]

That would make sense but our government doesn't have any.

Neither does mine

 

[DILLIGAF]

And now the rotating school shutdowns begin!

 

[ROBERTSON]

Well it looks like we have all of the teachers and associated helpers poised ready for all out job action/strike.
What is your opinion of this.
Do you believe the Unions reports on the issues or do you believe the government reports?
Do you think teachers should have the right to strike or should that right be taken away from them?
My personal feeling is that they should not have the right to strike as I believe that the job should be classified as an essential service.
I also do not believe the Union reports on the issue nor do I believe the government reports although I believe the government reports are closer to the truth.
I believe the current government is trying to undue a mess that was created by the previous Liberal government and is just not saying exactly what is going on and putting the cards on the table and letting the public see and hear exactly what is going on.
I believe the Unions is outright using the students as hostage in the negotiations and saying everything that it is for the betterment and protection of the students.
The issue is MONEY plain and simple.
I personally think they should privatize the education system completely. These overpaid under worked blow bags are at the end of the rope. I hope they freeze their collective asses off on the picket line.
Robbie - over to you!!!

Point by point.
- I don't believe ANYTHING the teachers unions state.
- The right to strike, of course not, they are "essential",... just ask them.
Seriously,... on that point, the thing that the public is most upset about, is the baby sitting service they are refusing to do.
- Of coarse the government is trying to right the mess the past Fiberals have created, but greedy teachers unions are also just as responsible.
- Yes it is all about money, the teachers have no say in how the education system is run,... NONE,... its none of their fricken business.
And yet they keep on lying that they are on refusing to do their jobs, because they don't like how the government is running the system.

I would honestly like to hear from anybody with apposing view points.

I WILL NOT INITIATE INSULTING.

 

[DILLIGAF]

So I guess you will agree that most unions have exceeded their rights and are trying to run companies and organizations the way they see it.

 

[ROBERTSON]

So I guess you will agree that most unions have exceeded their rights and are trying to run companies and organizations the way they see it.

Yep.
I would be the 1st to acknowledge that when governments were not setting rules for the work place, 50-60 years ago, unions served a needed function.
But now with governments setting rules for employment and safety, unions only function now is to blackmail employers, private and government.
With the result is well paying jobs moved out of the country, including those related jobs that were not unionized.
And not just due to ridiculous pay scales, but because unions believe low productivity creates jobs, three people to do one persons job, but the end result is all three permanently gone.
Unions have also contributed to the wage gap, with no sound reasoning.
A person could be doing exactly the same job in a company next door, but one will be payed twice as much, why, for the simple reason one is unionized.
Which is really humorous, as unions are inherently communist, you know, everybody should be poor.
I know for a fact unions were blackmailing companies to include how the shop floor was run,... BY UNIONS.
On my favorite "profession", the average income for teaches in one district is $92,000 per year,... oh sorry, that's 9 months in teacher years.
Which works out to about $115/hr.
And they are refusing to do their jobs, teach children, because they want a raise.

GM had twice as many people being paid not working, as were working, and had to be baled out by 3 governments.

Any apposing views welcome.

 

[DILLIGAF]

Like you say.
I can remember when construction and mining health and safety were almost non existent from an owner's perspective.
Unions fought hard for workers in these and other trades to establish workers rights to a safe environment to work in. And the right to a fair wage for performing those duties .
At no time has the Union offered up money to a business entrepreneur to start a company and share in the risk. At no time has the union offered to invest money to bail out any large manufacturer from possible chapter 11 especially those in the automotive and steel industry.
If anything they have held the death sword over the head of management at the bargaining table. They have consistently lied about the reasons for strikes in various industries and have hood winked the public into believing it is for the good of the work environment.
Just a couple of points for those not in the know.
Union executive salaries? Anyone care to comment?
Unifor leader Mr. Dias arrested in Saskatchewan for illegal picket line.
Sabotage to equipment and vehicles (transport trucks) that have left a facility which is on strike.
Steel industry in Canada and the USA. Any idea where it went?
Auto industry in Canada and the USE. Any idea where it went?
Workers in a Union shop will be told to slow down if they work to fast.
The list goes on and on so I will not bore you with more details.
I have sat on the management bargaining committee and witnessed these examples first hand.
Unions have exceeded their mandate and are now a communist force in north america.

 

[papasmerf]

Unions today are best suited to trade unions.
Not Public unions.
But the fact remains in the Trades world the wages are based on what the market will bare.

I remind my electrical brothers and sisters not to price themselves out of the market.

 

[DILLIGAF]

Unions today are best suited to trade unions.
Not Public unions.
But the fact remains in the Trades world the wages are based on what the market will bare.

I remind my electrical brothers and sisters not to price themselves out of the market.

papa
please explain to me how a union firm competes in a market that they don't have an agreement with?
They cannot compete with those wages in an open market without concessions or they are signatory to the client.
Once you go beyond the premise of health & safety you are now treading in dangerous water. This is how the unions get into trouble and then have to resort to BS to con the public.

 

[papasmerf]

papa
please explain to me how a union firm competes in a market that they don't have an agreement with?
They cannot compete with those wages in an open market without concessions or they are signatory to the client.
Once you go beyond the premise of health & safety you are now treading in dangerous water. This is how the unions get into trouble and then have to resort to BS to con the public.

Within the trades unions remain viable in the Auto Industry providing support As well as municipality support services. In many cases Union gets president over non-union shops.........I am not saying this is the best plan of action but it is reality.

I support every ones right to work.

 

[ROBERTSON]

Within the trades unions remain viable in the Auto Industry providing support As well as municipality support services. In many cases Union gets president over non-union shops.........I am not saying this is the best plan of action but it is reality.

I support every ones right to work.

Not intending to start a war with you Papa, but the reason that Union shops sometimes get priority over non union, is simple, because the customer doesn't want any "union trouble".
Nobody wants to pay more, and have less control over a job site, without a reason.
I have spent many years at the big 3 and 2 Japanese plants, so have 1st hand experience with that sector.
If you needed something done a non union Japanese plant, you got it done NOW, without excuses that somebody else had to stand around with their hands in their pockets and watch.
I was part of a start-up team at a Ford engine plant, and even the "trades" could not get along.
"That's our job, no its ours", complete with trailer fire bombing.
Now comparing the trades with simple labour unions, NO comparison.
I personally saw an electrician at a Chrysler engine plant purposely advance drilling and reaming tools in a line, and then go into the control panel, and advance the line, breaking each and every tool on the line.
Why, the line had a problem that the electrician was supposed to find and correct, but didn't feel like doing it on his shift, or didn't know how.
So now by the time the line was retooled, he was done his shift, now it was somebody else's problem.
Mexico, here we come.
The stories I could tell.

 

[papasmerf]

Just one note
There is a huge difference between IBEW and the UAW.

The IBEW has a comprehensive training program and is typically working thru contractors. And as a contractor you are only as good as your last job

 

[DILLIGAF]

papa
I certainly don't want to start a war with you over Unions but I feel I have to speak up for the other side on this.
I like robbie have had extensive experience with the auto and steel industry. But I have more experience in the construction sector.
You say that you are support everyone's right to work!
So I will give you an example of how that statement is a crock of steaming you know what.
Toronto District School Board. Public entity with everything paid for by tax revenue. Signatory to several trade unions.
Only union contractors are allowed to tender directly to the TDSB for work. A non-union shop can work as a sub to a union general just don't get caught.
That same practice goes on and on with City of Toronto work Mississauga work most city contracts in Ontario.
Just look at the fiasco that are going on now with Kitchener and Sault St. Marie with Union vs Open shop competitive bidding.
Trade Unions block Open shop bidding plain and simple so how is that supporting everyone's right to earn a living?

 

[papasmerf]

I said I support. I will not ever say Unions support it.

 

[DILLIGAF]

So that is like suck and blow!

 

[papasmerf]

I also am not in favor of public sector unions.

Here anyone can bid on a job they just have to meet the requirements.
Most public jobs must pay prevailing wage....Puts the pay scale for it on a level playing field.

But lately the Feds have found a way around that by having developers build new buildings then the Feds lease it. It circumvents the Prevailing Wage requirements.

 

[DILLIGAF]

Political strong arm tacktics from the government!!!
Sounds like that is right out of the union handbook! LOL

 

[ROBERTSON]

On the shipping/cargo handling front.
This union is fighting, with threats to companies it deals with, if more automation is added.

"The ILWU has parlayed its niche, handling ocean cargo worth trillions of dollars, to land lucrative labor contracts with the Pacific Maritime Assn., an employers’ group of shipping lines and terminal operators. Union dockworkers make an average of $171,000 a year plus free healthcare.
Clerks average $194,000, and foremen, or “walking bosses,” $282,000. Their paychecks dwarf those of many white-collar managers in the global economy, let alone other transportation workers, including members of the East Coast longshore union."

And they wounder why,... talk about living with your head in the sand, and bordering on outright stupidity.

On a side note, I wish the hell people, especially the media, would stop using "labour" as a term when commenting on an employer having union troubles, its NOT labour troubles or contracts. it UNION TROUBLES and CONTRACTS.
Then maybe the general public, which is the majority of the work force, will have a better understanding what they are paying for, and who is blackmailing them.

I do understand why the media doesn't like to call a spade a spade, because they are most likely hiding behind a union also.