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IN-Call Independents or Agencies- Decisions Decisions.

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4Times

Well-known member
Joined Mar 11, 2010
Messages 306


As reviews boards tend to get a tad Agency-Centric, my good friend GDLLover and I thought it would be useful to collaborate on a thread featuring a particular group of hardworking SP’s that are an important part of the Toronto Incall Scene. As I was preparing the “Most Popular SP’s 2010” thread , it was eye opening to see the extensive list of ladies operating as independents who were receiving review attention. Collectively, Independent SPs account for a significant percentage of business in the industry but individually they face a challenging competitive picture in attracting business in competition with the agencies and with each other.

If all of the positive reviews of Independents were collected and grouped into one massive Agency operation, it would be the largest agency in the city and would command 20% of all positive reviews and endorsements on the review boards. For a perspective, the current 2010 Indy review count is noticeably down from the 25% of total reviews in 2009 but with superstar review generators such as Tina White, Raven, Miz Karly, Paigeblond, Dhalia, Asian Kelly, missing from the review boards so far in 2010, the drop in reviews among Indys relative to the Agencies is explainable. So far this year, 56 Indy ladies have generated 231 positive reviews and endorsements from Hobbiers on the incall review boards. By comparison, the top incall Agency operation, has generated 15% of the incall reviews from 37 ladies and 194 positive responses. There are a lot of Indy ladies out there with a few glowing reviews each, whereas there are a few ladies at each Agency generating a lot of reviews. There is a “Lemming effect” among hobbiests on the boards when an Agency has a hot young asset come on schedule and a review cyclone follows. However, whatever the daily fad or review board buzz, the Indy’s are always there for us boys, many of whom seem like friends and family now. It is worthwhile to pay attention to the Independent services available in this town because we are rich in this particular service resource.


For starters, it should be noted that there are some fundamental differences between an Independent SP operation and an Agency operation that puts the Indy at a disadvantage in generating positive reviews at the same frequency rate as the SP’s at major agencies. Although some Indys are able to stand up well with Agency Sps in review generation, my own method of ranking industry SP’s by the number of Positive Reviews for my own TDL does not lend itself well for capturing the nature or the service quality of the independent. GDLLover has pointed out that I am missing out on the Indy experience and this is the motivation behind this thread with GDL.

Independent SPs, by definition, don’t have the same support infrastructure behind them, the advertising budget, and much of their time has to focus on client accumulation. These functions are routinely provided for Agency SPs. Many ladies work as Indys because they don’t want the rigidity of the Agency schedule, the lack of choice of who they see and for how long. As independent business women, Indys likely see less of a flow of the new business opportunities than Agencies do. Indys covet new clients but cherish their repeat clients. We may be all wet on this point but It would seem logical that reviews may not be as frequent for some Indy's as they tend to have a higher frequency of repeat clientele who are less likely to post a review raving about service quality or recommending the service to others. A clear example would be the Asian phenomenon known as Miss Sugar who has an army of supporters who seldom review her and she therefore is a much under-rated lady on the review boards. continued Part 2.
 

4Times

Well-known member
Joined Mar 11, 2010
Messages 306
Part 2


So 4Times and I put our heads together on this thread. 4Times asked me to work with him on this topic as I am more active with Independents than him. Here are some of our thoughts as to why you should consider blending the Independent escort experience with your Agency visits.


Building a relationship with the SP.
To begin with, the overall booking experience plays a significant role in developing a relationship with an agency or Indy. It starts as early as the initial contact with the Indy or Agency. There is an important distinction between dealing with Indy's versus an agency booking agent.

Agencies - Generally you just call them up and they have a list of fantastic ladies on schedule at any given time and you pick the one that meets your fancy. Easy to contact and easy to deal with. Because of the availability of talent, Agencies must own the “horny impulse” call from Hobbyers. At an Agency, most communication is done via a point person on the phones. It is uncertain what percentage of business is generated through Emails, or PMs on review boards but it would be an interesting breakdown. After the date is booked you meet the lady at the incall location where they are hiding behind the door to let you in. There is time required to overcome the inertia of meeting a stranger who you will be immediately intimate with, some awkwardness, and can require 5-15 min of chatting and bad jokes to break the ice with the lady and obtain a comfort level to proceed. With the entry and exit shower, Agency sessions can get rushed. We read about it all the time. Time in the room is precious.

Indy's - All communications is undertaken with the lady herself and the choice of contact is often of her preference by email/pm or phone. The advantage of dealing with the lady herself is that a connection is started even during the booking process. The downside is that some Indis can be more difficult to contact than making an Agency call. When you speak with the Indy SP, do not underestimate her incredible perception in discerning the type of client you are by your style of communication and the vibe you are giving off. Their heightened sense awareness is one of importance as their safety depends on it. Indy’s are much more likely to pick and choose their clients. While the agency booking agent is probably also trained in these skills to ensure their ladies safety, a mental connection with the booking agent, although important, doesn't really help the client in meeting the Agency SP. By booking with an Indy lady you will have either sent a few emails/pm's back and forth or a phone call or two, and she already has a feeling for you which means there’s already a baseline comfort level obtained. For a Hobbyest, Indys are less of an impulse call and require more planning and pre-booking. By the time you meet your Indy girlfriend, you have put a lot of thought into being there and have made deliberate plans, and you are both probably more keen to make it work. The intangible advantage attained in booking directly with an Indy is that during the subsequent face to face meeting, any apprehensions have already been minimized increasing the likelihood of a positive session and isn’t that what we are all after?

Even after the session is over, the mental connection that you have made with the Indy SP may continue to germinate as most of the more popular ladies frequent the boards in threads or chat. Remember we are writing this from a Review Board client perspective. There is this whole underground flirtation thing that happens behind the scenes to keep the excitement going and friendships and relationships developing with the Indy. This is one explanation as to why Indys are deep in repeat business and the next visit is often more like a hot date with incredible chemistry. By this time, a Hobbiest is less likely to write an unbiased repeat Review as a friendship of sorts has developed so a review is less likely to occur. However, enthusiastic endorsements of other reviewers experience with the lady start to grow and an Indys support base develops on the boards. Continued Part 3
 

4Times

Well-known member
Joined Mar 11, 2010
Messages 306
Part 3


Highly Skilled Professionals- Many of the women in business as independents are more mature choices providing a unique and memorable service as compared to the hot younglings arriving regularly at the top agencies. This is no coincidence. In order to be successful as an independent operator, it usually takes years of experience to learn how to run a consistently high quality service capable of attracting and maintaining a regular clientele. An Indy’s skill set is her survival in this industry and often they will be more highly skilled and attentive than many of the agency SPs. There are many different types of experiences to be enjoyed in this hobby and the Mature Courtesan experience is not to be missed. A number of younger agency SP stars learn their trade quick enough, and thorough enough, to carry their solid reputations and popularity successfully into Independent status. For example recently we have seen young ladies such as Noir Plaisar, Gennevieve Lajoie, Rebecca Richardson, Holly Hartley, Brynn Winters, etc etc. successfully transition from agency careers to reinvent themselves as successful independents.



Backing up Service Quality- An Agency may or may not stand behind the service quality of their SP staff. The best Agencies do and compensate the client for sub-par sessions. This is a safety net consideration for many Hobbyers in choosing who to see. An Independent SP has to avoid negative situations in the first place and is experienced enough to minimize these incidents. The Indy has to back up her own service with consistent quality. We think you are more likely to receive a more sincere effort from the get go by an Independent. There is more of a motivation for developing a longer term relationship than an agency SP will have. The top Agency ladies are delivering great service or they wouldn’t be at the top agencies very long but an Indy lady can’t afford to take too many days off at the office and they are working for their own franchise, not an agency owner’s.


Less Clients Means a Quality Session- Many Independents see less clients and are more fully prepared to provide the client with a singularly great romantic encounter. Sessions with Indys are much more likely to be unrushed affairs. To GDL and me, this is a significant trait of the Indi service. Anybody who has been with Charlie Girl, Alexandra, Madison Doll etc etc appreciates this. There is also a great deal more flexibility for Indy’s to partner up for multiple partner sessions with ladies across the industry. At the Agency’s you are limited to the Agency staff of SP’s for a duo. Also, less clients means that the venue is less apt to attract the attention of nosy building tenants and LE considerations.

It would appear at first glance that the Indy vs Agency debate is one of quality but this couldn't be farther from the truth. There are good and bad providers in each category. Reviews are still the best way to know what to expect with respect to quality of service even though Indys are not on an even playing field with Agencies in this matter. Caution should be taken with un-reviewed ladies in Craigslist, Now, Red Zone, etc. There are good ones there for sure, as Jaime at the airport is a perfect example. This mature SP has created quite a recent buzz from CL word of mouth. However there is also quite a bit of B & S to sort through too. We believe that the well reviewed, higher end Indys are a good choice for a low risk venture into the hobby. Most of the top ladies acting as Independents are highly skilled women and thoroughly know how to please a guest. Otherwise how could you expect them to operate as a successful Independent in such a competitive market as Toronto?


Pricing is all over the map in the world of Independents. As this is an important consideration to many clients we find that most of the top Independents price themselves competitively to the Agencies or slightly less than the Agencies. Pricing ranges from $200-350 per hour. Many of the ladies that have been proven Agency stars just continue to price themselves at Agency rates as Indys. Some Indys deliberately price higher rates to attract clients from higher income circles. You will seldom see reviews of these encounters. Some ladies will ask you to commit to a longer session (2-Hour Minimum). A discussion of Indy pricing brings up the question by Hobbyers as to why should an Indy be charging full agency prices if they have less overhead, no staff and they don't have all this support structure to pay for? Why then are the rates similar or sometimes more than Agencies? Well the choice of being an Indy doesn’t skirt the issue that they have to spend time generating interest on such conduits as websites and the creation and maintenance of these sites. Also fielding calls, emails, pm's, paying for and arranging hotel rooms or getting a condo and furnishing/cleaning and all the extra's like soap/shampoo/mouthwash, etc. There are fixed costs just like any business. All this stuff takes time and money to run their business so just like any business owner knows, in the end it needs to be incorporated into the cost.



Continued Part 4
 

4Times

Well-known member
Joined Mar 11, 2010
Messages 306
So who are Torontos most talked about Independent SP’s so far in 2010. 4Times and I have listed the ladies alphabetically but to be here on this elite listing there must have been at least 5 positive reviews and endorsements this year. Hey we just can’t throw anybody on this list.



Alexandra


Amber RZ (affiliated with GOE)


Asian Alice
https://www.sweetalie.com/

Asian Crystal


Brynn Winters


Catherine
https://www.theredzone.com/toronto/catherine/index.htm

Charlene Asian Miss.
416- 568-4424

Charlie Girl


Deme Fox


Genevieve Lajoie
https://www.genevievelajoie.com/

Harmony
https://www.eroticharmony.com/

Holly Hartley


Jaime


Jordan


Juel


Kaelyn Kroft


Karina Enescu


Kayleigh Carter


Kenzie Taylor


Kyra Graves


Madelyn


Madison Doll (Active but relocating)
[email protected]

Miss Cookie
https://www.theredzone.com/mississauga/cookie/

Molly Robinson


Mya Espinoza


Noir Plaisir

Olivia Ray
https://www.topindependentescorts.org/olivia.htm

Passion


Rebecca Richardson


Rylie Royale



(Riley you owe us 5 positive reviews)

Tgirl Niki



We invite input from this community to enhance this thread with info and insights. Feedback is invited and welcome. If you want to recommend your favorite Indy on this thread- we would like to know about them. 4Times/GDLLover
 
Joined Mar 11, 2010
Messages 503
Thanks for putting this together 4times.

Surprisingly, I've never actually booked with an Indy SP before so I found your writeup useful.
 

GDLLover

Well-known member
Joined Dec 8, 2009
Messages 439
rileyroyal said:
So this is just based on the few selected who advertise online, and not in print.

Riley, this guide was not at any intention to take away from anyone. The explanations are very clear, the indy SPs with 5+ positive reviews are listed as its not possible to mention everyone. I would be surprised that your commenting considering you got an honourable mention.
 
I

iceman_dci

Guest
*applause* 4x's and GDL. Great work guys; I see a publishing deal in the works.

I have a mixed bag of Indies and Agency girls and have not really ventured past my tried and true Indies - Genevieve, Becky, Sexy Jordan and Jaime; I adore every minute I spend with these lovely ladies. I do realize the benefits you've pointed out as far as quality time spent with Indies (no rigid clock watching) although I am respectful of their time.

The Agency ladies that I've been involved with have not moved around too much except for the elusive Sydney nee Cameron of Diva's when I finally caught up with her at RM. London/Brittney/London is no longer on the map of fav's of Agency girls. Tamara of GOE has made my ATF list. I'd say I have a good mix and all of your points about pros and cons are definitely taken in to consideration.

What can I say, I'm well rounded :)

Again, excellent read gentlemen and kudos for the research and thought.

Ice
 

GDLLover

Well-known member
Joined Dec 8, 2009
Messages 439
Everyone, I must thank 4times for initiating this thread. Much work went into his statistics monitoring.

We also must thank the many queens that were donated in the research of this effort. Any pleasure obtained as a result of this research is to be enjoyed ar your own risk. :lol:
 

RedLight

Well-known member
Joined Nov 4, 2009
Messages 255
Nice job GDL. I have read quite a few of your Indi reviews. Great reads anfd good info
 

GDLLover

Well-known member
Joined Dec 8, 2009
Messages 439
RedLight said:
Nice job GDL. I have read quite a few of your Indi reviews. Great reads anfd good info

Thanks, for the thoughts. This truely was a colaberation with 4times, whom started the idea and I gave input so there was much content from both of us. Because this joint effort was so successful, we're considering another project.
 

Knight Rider

Well-known member
Joined Nov 14, 2009
Messages 1,471
Great research guys!

Thanks for all the effort and hard work that you put into the thread.

As for me, most of my hobbying experience has been with agency ladies, with a few notable exceptions:

Holly Hartley
Sexy Jordan

I do plan on seeing more independents this year, as they have so much to offer and often suffer from a lot less publicity when compared to agency ladies. I do think that caerf is doing a good thing by having a top independent category in their monthly review contest. The independents that go out of their way to provide excellent and consistent service definitely deserve all the good publicity that they can generate.

Once again, thanks for the great work.

KR
 

Dan

Reviewer
Joined Feb 13, 2010
Messages 3,162
Both hands clapping, thanks to both of you for the great work.
 

Judge

Well-known member
Joined Feb 13, 2010
Messages 102
Outstanding work gentlemen, shows why you 4x is leading in the best contributor contest.
 

ChaosTheory

Reviewer
Joined Mar 28, 2010
Messages 2,346
Judge said:
Outstanding work gentlemen, shows why you 4x is leading in the best contributor contest.

+ 1

Thanks again 4x and thank you GDLover. Your posts are always so helpful and a remarkable guide and benchmark.
I would like to thank you for all your time, efforts and consideration in doing this for us all.
 

zigzaw joker

Reviewer
Joined Apr 21, 2010
Messages 285
Awesome thread guys, i had no idea there were so many indy's here in hog town as i've only seen a couple of indy's myself, both of which provided premium service. Thanks for the effort, much appreciated !
 
B

Beenthere123

Guest
ChaosTheory said:
+ 1

Thanks again 4x and thank you GDLover. Your posts are always so helpful and a remarkable guide and benchmark.
I would like to thank you for all your time, efforts and consideration in doing this for us all.

+ 2

Both you guys aced this one. Congratulations a pad in the back is in order , you RULE 4x.
 
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